http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell She had the operation 2 weeks ago and is still not standing, she says she can't move her legs, they feel "heavy" and hurt when touched and sometimes just hurt. She can wiggle her toes and rotate her feet but can't lift either leg, not even to put her foot on the foot rest of a wheelchair... I can't help thinking that this is all fear rather than real paralysis. How do I tell?]]> en-us Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:04:10 GMT http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=176398#tr__176398 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=176398#tr__176398 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:04:10 GMT karen777 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=171868#tr__171868 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=171868#tr__171868 Thu, 08 Dec 2011 02:42:25 GMT An http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=170250#tr__170250 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=170250#tr__170250
I was hoping to hear some news about your daughter, it has been quite a while and am hoping that you are still following this discussion.  We still care.]]> Thu, 17 Nov 2011 04:35:27 GMT Wayne http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152309#tr__152309 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152309#tr__152309 I've read the replies to your question and you've gotten some good advice.  One thing that was not suggested is that it's possible your daughter may have developed RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy).   It's a chronic nerve disorder that occurs after an injury usually, and it can be triggered by a nerve injury.  Because you've mentioned that you feel your daughter is probably depressed (a perfectly natural reaction to what she's going through) RSD occurred to me since the sympathetic nervous system -- the nervous system that links our emotions with our physical health-- is a trigger as well. 

This is a very real disease that is often overlooked.  I had a minor ankle injury in my adolescence that led to temporary paralysis in my leg.  At the time I recall I was accused of faking it by a few people when they were having trouble finding out why I was having so much pain moving my leg.  Thank god for my family, who were supportive the entire time.  It turned out to be a physical therapist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia who diagnosed the RSD and then we were able to treat it.  I was pretty much symptom free for many years but it reappeared after I was in a catastrophic motor vehicle accident decades later.  My arm was paralyzed in the accident and the RSD showed again in that paralyzed arm.

The RSD is just one possibility among many, as is nerve bruising, tearing, or anything else that this group presents to you.  The most important things you can gather are to see specialists such as neurologists, physical therapists, and a counselor for both your daughter and the whole family. You remind me of my dad, who is a really caring  father as well, but also kept insisting that "he was fine" when he could've used some counseling help in dealing with my spinal cord injuries.   You need to support your daughter, trust her and believe her, for even if you feel like she could do more there has to be be a reason she isn't.  Whether or not that reason is physical or psychological, they are both of equal importance and weight when factoring into her health.  Traumatic injuries and surgeries are life altering for adults, for children and teenagers they are even more difficult.  Make sure you manage your expectations and keep them realistic, they are likely going to change.   It's obvious that the "two weeks 'till walking" isn't going to happen, and you don't want to pressure her too much.  I'm sure you love her a lot or you wouldn't be on this message board, so you're trying your best to be a great dad and that's wonderful.  ]]> Tue, 02 Aug 2011 02:12:54 GMT GENEVIEVE http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152123#tr__152123 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152123#tr__152123 All that is a lot  to handle for loving mom whom was told that her daughter will walk with no problem. 
But if we are discussing here, it is because we want to tell you how we see things with our experience and expertise of some kind.
"I am convinced that there is no physical reason for some of her symptoms and that they are in her head through fear or depression or both."
no there are physical reasons, her symptoms can be explained.
Please acknowledge the paralysis as it is for now.
So I do think you need to have your daughter evaluated for neurological impairment. If you cannot see a neurosurgeon specialized in spinal cord then see a neurologist as Wayne suggested.
You also need to get the two MRI reports the one prior surgery and the one after surgery and the CDs. Was the post surgical MRI  done at the thoracic level or only lumbar. When was done the post-surgery MRI. Hemorrhage, swelling and so on... can occurs...doing another MRI now might not be bad...The neurologist will order the right tests. Bring all your tests and reports to the neurologist.  You might get the surgery X-rays (the ones taken during the 12 hours surgery) and the post-surgery X-rays and reports.
Also, Georgie, for a 12 hours surgery  they are several surgeons involved. So, I am not buying the "surgeon in vacation for a month". This is not an acceptable answer from the surgery group. They have to find an appointment with one of the surgeons that were doing the surgery as well. I feel, that the surgery group left you alone.....
Georgie, courage.

Christine.




]]> Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:18:48 GMT Christine http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152057#tr__152057 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152057#tr__152057
I have an idea what I need to tell the rehab team when we eventually get there..]]> Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:15:03 GMT Georgie http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152055#tr__152055 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=152055#tr__152055
We do have MRIs before and after.. they say there is no chord damage but say nerves could be bruised by such a big operation.

She is still catherised for urine but is being hoisted out of bed, put in a wheelchair, pushed to the bathroom, hoisted out of wheelchair onto toilet and uses the toilet for faeces

Breathing is fine but she says she can't contract her abdo muscles, because of weakness and or pain she can't really be specific

She doesn't have the strength in her arms or abdo muscles to hold herself upright if they hoist her up and put her between bars... Her knee collapses and she goes down... This I don't understand because why doesn't she just support herself with her arms.

I am convinced that there is no physical reason for some of her symptoms and that they are in her head through fear or depression or both.

The surgeon is on holiday and now we're just waiting for the rehab hospital, I'm hoping they will sort her out because I am really at a loss to what to do... ]]> Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:13:50 GMT Georgie http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151971#tr__151971 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151971#tr__151971 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 05:24:45 GMT Wayne http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151962#tr__151962 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151962#tr__151962 Christine makes some valid points, some that I hadn't thought of. An MRI can show if a nerve bundle has been cut, it can't tell you if it has been bruised or nicked.  As I mentioned before, nerves take a very long time to recover and to my untrained mind, I still think that she may have a bruised nerve.  I thought of another analogy to help understand a bruised nerve.  If you have a garden hose with the water turned on full blast (nothing on the open end of the hose) you have a full stream of water coming out.  Now, if you would put a cotton sock over the end of the hose, the water still comes out but not as strong and the water is diffused over the sock where the direction is confused, but it's still there. ~Eventually the sock will wear away and the stream will again become strong, in most cases.  I wouldn't believe any surgeon that would say absolutely that he didn't damage any nerves, and could the tumor have affected any nerves?.
There are also other tests that can be used to check nerve function, a Neurologist can do this.  BUT, I am beginning to believe that she may have post surgical depression.  Please re-read what Christine said and the points she brings up.  Maybe your daughter was expecting too much after the surgery, or the pain has affected her, but with her vertebrectomy being in the L-4 area, her symptoms don't seem to match.
And Georgie, it was very frightening.  My accident happened just couple of months before my 16th birthday.  But if memory serves, I think that the actual accident scared me worse at the time than the thought of being a paraplegic the rest of my life.  But I had very understanding but determined parents who worked very hard with me, so that I could be the best that I could be, and it worked.  I owe everything to them, making me work when I wanted to quit.  Instilling in me that I wasn't less than anyone, and that I could do anything I really wanted to do, and I did. I may not be rich and successful but I am satisfied with my life and reasonably happy.  Love your Daughter and work with her.  I think she will come around, but she will need some help, but don't baby her either. Please keep me posted.]]> Mon, 01 Aug 2011 04:30:27 GMT Wayne http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151836#tr__151836 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151836#tr__151836 If your daughter says she cannot cough this is becoming serious. I mean serious real issue.
You need to see the surgeon or another one.  Again do you have a MRI of the spinal cord including thoracic and lumbar levels after the surgery. 
Is she incontinent or not. How does she go to the bathroom. 
Can she voluntary contracts her abdominal muscles....How is her breathing can she inhale exhale normally? When she says she cannot cough is it because it induces pain or bc of paralysis. In other words can she voluntary cough if it is not painful.
In any case if at one point she says she is having trouble breathing, please do not think a second it is psychologic, just rush to the next ER.
MRI would show damage of the spinal cord. 

Christine.




]]> Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:21:06 GMT Christine http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151622#tr__151622 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151622#tr__151622
The surgeon says he didn't damage the chord when he removed the vertebra.
The vertebra had a tumour inside it and they took the whole thing in a 12 hour operation.
The surgeon said she'd POSSIBLY have a slight limp on the right leg
The Surgeon is on holiday for a month now...

Can you dianose spinal Chord damage with any diagnostic techniques, like MRI?
]]> Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:57:53 GMT Georgie http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151621#tr__151621 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151621#tr__151621 The vertebra is L4 so I don't understand the upper stuff either.
The crazy pain stuff is a fantastic explanation, thank you and must be terrifying to a 16 year old.
So, it is probably as I think it is... she has a mixture of very real issues and some psychological issues that need help.
Wayne, does nerve bruising get better, or improve at all? can you add a supplement to your diet that is beneficial to nerve regeneration?
Do you still get the pains after 45 years?
]]> Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:52:19 GMT Georgie http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151554#tr__151554 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151554#tr__151554 Although she may have feeling but she says her legs feel heavy is probably true.  It takes a signal through the nerves to the muscles to make them work, but if that signal is there but it is not strong, it could make her legs feel heavy.  I am no physician but only rely on experience, but to me it sounds like it's a possibility that the nerves are bruised and the signal is having a difficult time getting through.  Do you have access to a Clinical Physiologist?  This type of Physician might help in any additional diagnosis for your Daughter. They specialize in the function and movement of the body and work closely with Neurologists.  Your Daughter should possibly be looked at by a Neurologist. 
But if the vertebrectomy is lower and she says she is having problems with the upper part of her body, then i would say yes, she might need to be seen by a Psychologist as the procedure itself may have affected her.  It is so difficult to say from here, and not being a medical practitioner, all I can offer is an opinion, but things take time.]]> Sun, 31 Jul 2011 03:17:13 GMT Wayne http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151332#tr__151332 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151332#tr__151332 I have to explain to people all the time.  Most can understand the electric cord story.  If the cord has a cut in it, it ain't going to work as good as if it is repaired.

KK
]]> Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:53:19 GMT KK http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151326#tr__151326 http://www.spinalcordinjury-paralysis.org/discussions/new-paralysis/2011/07/20/is-my-daughter-faking-it-how-do-i-tell?tr=151326#tr__151326 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:15:07 GMT Georgie