Oh boy, this is one active discussion group! That's certainly good news and bad news. It does show that we are in search of kindred spirits-people who can understand what it's like. And it shows that we are social animals and function much better when we are connected to our fellow humans. So in a way, what's happening here is very human and very healthy-we are searching for connection.

But I am not able to read how everyone is reacting to this loss of connection. For some it sounds like anger or resentment and for others I think I hear sadness. And maybe others are feeling fear about what this really means for the future. So what does this mean to you? What stories do you tell yourself about these losses? Does it mean everyone else is too busy, insensitive, self absorbed? Does it mean we are less lovable, too needy or too vulnerable?

Nanaboombala, asked me about mirror neurons and the answer may be relevant to this conversation.
Have you ever noticed that when you see someone fall, you immediately feel an emotional reaction. I typically feel embarrassed. Now I haven't done anything I might be embarrassed about, but within a millisecond, I put myself in his or her shoes and I feel embarrassed. Same thing happens when we see someone hit their finger with a hammer, we almost feel the pain. That is a neurological process and part of our way of connecting to our fellow human animals. We react to the emotion in front of us.

Now, some people might react to wheelchairs or odors or broken bodies. But more often than not, people react to the emotional tone in the room (even if they are not aware of it).

For many years after my accident, I was also abandoned. I have my wife, my children and my parents were living back then, but I was still being abandoned.

By me

I was filled with self loathing, insecurity, shame and depression. I didn't feel unlovable, I knew I was unlovable. There were many people who visited me in the hospital and even for the first week or two afterwards. But most of them drifted away. Partly because we weren't that close in the first place. But partly because I wonder if my resentment and self-loathing was just too much for them.

I abandoned myself. I hated my body and I didn't acknowledge my vulnerability and how frightened my being was. Most of what I engaged in was self-pity and feeling victimized. I turned my back on Dan at a time when I desperately needed compassion and companionship. Yes, I abandoned myself. And I am guessing I am not alone in that.

As far as people reacting is concerned, I have a very embarrassing confession to make. I have a friend in my community, a woman my senior who is/liked and respected by many people.. Her adult child became very ill and she became severely depressed. She cut off all physical contact, retired from her career and withdrew from the world. When she answered phone calls she would just talk about her despair and how she could not face this plight in her life. Understandably, she was terrified about the possibility of her child's death and in a way was wishing she would pass away first. This was a well loved woman and I found myself calling her less than I would have ordinarily. And in hindsight, I was doing it because all I could do when we spoke on the phone was to feel helpless despair. Like I said, I am ashamed of this but that was my mirror neurons working and may simply reacting and not reflecting.

I think I will call her now.

Hi Dan, I'm new to this site and this board so I've not read any of your thoughts on mirror neurons. Would really like to read/learn more about this. It resonates with me as a follower of Science of Mind and the belief that what we put out attracts the same quality of experience. Thanks!

Thanks for the clarification of....mirror neurons Dan. It explains so much of what I've felt over the last thirty years. The fact that......the emotional tone in the room, is rather directly related to MY emotional tone..........well doggone it.......that puts it directly in my very own lap.....dosen't it ? And.......when you confessed your own embarrassement about somewhat withdrawing from your friend.........I thought of my own story. I have an aquaintance ( the sister of a very close friend ).....who has suffered from depression most of her life. I've gotten to know her in the last ten years........but....I knew she was suicidal........and even knowing this......began to avoid her phone calls. Many times after speaking with her.....I would find myself down.....for days. She actually did try to kill herself......thank God she called her brother in time........but talk about guilt ! Now I know she needs professional help......she sees  someone......but knowing all this.....I still would rather avoid a conversation with her. I certainly haven't felt very highly of myself......more than embarassment......it's shame ! So....your explaination helps. I've only just begun to feel compassion for myself........try on a daily basis.....to love myself more.......to be kinder.......just to be all the things that matter to me. I'm finding a more loving, compassionate world out there ! Who'd of thought ? Thanks Dan.................Norma

Hi Moon.......I've tried neumerous ways to get letters off to you.....through your message board on your profile page......only to get the message.....please refresh.....try again and my whole message vanishes !( three times ! )  Talk about frustrating.....so....I'll try this......reply to your note ! I hope your first outing since your accident was just terrific.....I know you had some anxiety about it. I agree with you that horses are spiritual animals........my love for them has stayed with me through the years. I can still feed them carrots from my patio ( my friend, on whose property I live.....has four )........she also has a llama ( Bahama.....a cute....very personable little guy she's had for almost a year now ).......He gets granola bars. I ride the golf cart on her twenty acres.......and between the horses, four dogs and too many cats to mention ( although feral......they all have names )........my life kind of revolves around animals ! No complaint here.........there's something sublimely wonderful about animals........they don't care how well ( or not ) you're aging........or if you can walk....or not .......or if you put too much salt in the spaghetti sauce.......know what I mean ? No.....I'm just kidding. I still relate to family and a small but important circle of friends. Life is, for the most part .........good. I sure hope your recovery is going well.  Now for the hairy part.....I'm gonna try to hit post......and see what happens ! Thanks for writing.......hope to hear from you soon............Norma

Hi Maddy,

Yes, that's essentially true – that what we put out in the world does come back and the vehicle is called mirror neurons. But it's important to know that it's not the words that we put out there, it's the emotions. That's why I don't care what people call me whether it is disabled, special needs or nothing at all – words don't matter. But the attitude behind those words means everything and that is what we all react to.

When we are feeling bitter or angry or filled with self-loathing or self-pity, we are not likely to invite a compassionate response. On the other hand, when we are feeling these things, if we can drop down and allow ourselves to feel even more deeply we might discover new things. We might discover that underneath the anger and self-pity are feelings of sadness or grief or vulnerability. And these emotions-precisely the ones we hide-are the ones that are most likely to invite kindness and compassion.

Hurray! I got this one...I am surrounded by animals too, two elderly dogs, three parrots and 13 chickens. I'd be lost without them. One critter's relationship with me comes with A LOT of strings, my Grey Parrot, Andy (short for Andrea since I found out she was a girl about 6 months after I got her) Parrots are not "unconditional" lovers. Andy loves me but sadly she is a reflection of my physical n mental condition and has fallen to the common domestically bred - house-kept parrot bad habit of plucking her feathers. It began about 4 years ago when something bad happened with my childhood family (mostly my sister , but my son was also involved and he still does not speak to me). I have yet to understand what happened but fortunately my sister seems to have gotten over "it" and we had a nice long chat last Sunday. I think Andy is improving and as long as I can keep my spirits up so will she.
 The outing you mentioned was to go about three hours away to visit a Canine Assistance dog facility...fortunately I was accepted to the program but the wait to be paired with a dog is 6 to 18 months. We were out from 9:30AM until around 5 PM when I got home and collapsed until 7:45AM the next day! I slept almost 14 hours! I'll definitely have to get in shape for the training - there is a three week, on site - 7 days a week, training program when you get your dog.
I'll bet you get a lot of positive energy from the horses and the llama. Did you ever thing of getting a cart and "driving"? or are you not able? I'm so glad to have met you, we simply must keep in touch. I understand this SCI effects people of  all ages but I am most comfortable with people my age or older...somehow 50 and over we seem wiser. God bless you and your friend who gives you a home on her farm. Have we exchanged phone numbers? Go to send a message at the top right of my profile (about me) page and send me your number privately, I will do the same and I'll call you probably one weekend day to introduce myself. Take care, Moongink/Carolyn

Sounds like your " Andy " is a perfect example of the mirror neurons Dr. Dan has been talking about ! Ha ! Will message you my number.......see what happens ?

we can begin to change our environment by approaching the world with an open heart and a curious mind. Of course it takes years of practice to live that way, but an interesting experiment to approach the next human you see with real curiosity about what it's like to live inside their skin, to have lived the lives they have lived.
Approach then with a sense of kindness and curiosity and see what happens next

Anybody who tries this, I would love to hear how it goes

Okay Dan.......an open heart..........a sense of kindness........and curiosity ! I'm gonna try it.......see what happens.....and get back to you. It all sounds.......right !

okay everybody I am anxious to hear how the experiment went!
and if you haven't tried it, then just spend 24 hours not saying anything negative about anyone or anything. Speak of everyone with a sense of understand. And then at the end of the day, check in with yourself and see how you feel.
And then check in with us!

Okay Dan........I was in the hospital.........the housekeeper came in..........first of all, her name was Martha.( usually we don't know their names.....I asked )........we started talking.....I say we.......loaded with curiosity, an open heart and kindness.........what came spilling out of Martha......was how proud she was of her kids..........her daughter had just graduated H.S......she had an older son who was in college........all I know is that after meeting Martha......I felt better for having met her...........when she came in on the following days..........she told me more and more about her life.........she was like a dam that couldn't contain itself. Again, I felt really good about having met her. This open heart......kindness......and curiosity.........really works ! It helps me know that.......we're all........ connected !

I was just sent this post and had two immediate reactions. First I almost giggled with delight. Second, I wanted to hug you (still do!)
Thanks so much for taking this risk. And keep in mind, kindness is habit-forming. Brain scientists say "neurons that fire together wired together". So the more you practice open heart itd curiosity,the more it becomes habitual.
And then you will find more of what you really want in life

Yes Dan......I believe you to my toes ! So........thanks again.......and......that need for a hug goes both ways !

I am going to try to spend this weekend (Friday and Saturday, but starting now) without saying "I can't" and without making negative remarks about myself. I am bringing my husband down and he doesn't need that. Dan, I'll let you know how it goes. I was once told that "God wants you to love yourself first". I need to get back to that practice.
Moongink/Carolyn
I am attaching an example of what I've been doing to pass the time. I want to get up and scrub my house but it's just too painful so I do some light housekeeping and then I regress to about 12 years old and start colouring.....sometimes the hours fly by.

Carolyn........that is quite beautiful !.............and good luck with your experiment. 

Dan.......I have to share this with you.....and anyone else who might be interested. Because I'm just out of the hospital.....I've had two new people come to the house.....people whom I've not met before. Key to what we've been talking about........seems to be name.......remembering it......and saying it. After meeting Yevonne ( home health nurse )......I then asked some general questions about her family........but it seems as though once she was convinced I was really interested.......she also, was like a dam.......who's gate was just opened. I learned of her whole family.....mainly her children.......what she was proud of......but also what she feared for......I was surprised by her openness.........surprised and delighted. The same thing happened when I met Chris ( the physical therapist ).........he shared so much about his life.......and it felt wonderful to be the trusted recipient of such personal information . I guess that's the key........the key to that connection. It's a wonderful revelation to feel a part of the whole......a real part.......the human part......the one that won't let us isolate. So again.........thanks Dan. I owe you that hug......and then some !

Hi.  My daughter is paralyzed--incomplete from the waist down.  She is now 17, but her accident happened at 13.5 years old.  She has pushed all her old local friends away, but for one, for many reasons that I can understand.  She was a cheerleader and wanted to play varsity football, which sign ups were 2 days after her accident. 
She has isolated herself so completely, that her best friend is on the Internet and lives clear across the US in Florida.  For a long time, most Internet buddies didn't even know she was in a wheelchair until I asked one day becasue she wanted to go visit her firend in Florida. I asked her:   " How do you think she'll react when you see her for the first time?" "What if she's planning beach trips or DisneyWorld or trips that aren't wheelchair friendly?" "How do you plan to get up/down to her second story bedroom?" " What if they come to pick you up in a car, that you can't fit your chair into?" Well she finally told her, the girl is still her best friend.  
I can't get her to try new things with me and she continues to be content in her bedroom...her comfort zone. I vacation with her for a week every year and I vacation with my husband--separately. I tell her to just try everything possible just once and if she doesn't like it then she doesn't have to do it again or will never see thse people again. She did some cutting on her leg and sides of abdomin, so now she has scars to deal with (we've taken care of the self injury situation) and embarrassed about, so swimming is usually out unless I rent a house with a private pool. 
Her paralysis is different in some ways becasue she can stand and walk in a bent knee position with supports, she doesn't cath, so we make many stops along a deserted road to pee on a road trip, but anytime it involves people and especially kids (becasue they stare at her cool wheelchair), then most of the time, she avoids the adventure. I'm trying to get her to go on a big camping trip I take with a large group of family friends that she's known since she was a baby enticing her with a private potty room since when she has to go she has to go now, a comfy mattress, her one friend can tag along. Its a real good time and every year she asks me all about it. I know she wants to go--who doesn't want to go on a houseboat, ride quads and seadoos and play party bingo with us, but then there's the scars on her legs and wheeling her down to the lake, and all else that can be troublesome with a wheelchair and she doesn't want to deal with it all.
Talking about negativity...I've often tried to get her to think positive and say positive things for just 1 day...even if its fake. Its a hard one to turn around, though. Dealing with depression myself because of all this and more, I did the negative to positive change for the day and it was amazing how uplifted I felt. I did this same expereiment in college with smiling and saying hello to people you passed--it's definately a feel good.
I just wanted to say that I understand the isolation, because I witness it myself daily and I experience it myself. I wish I had a housefull of teenagers every weekend excited about whatever was going on, I wish my daughter called me late at night to tell me she got a flat tire and wouldn't be home until late (becasue really went to a local party), or I wish she would just say to me "Mom, that really sounds like a cool idea. When are we gonna do it?"

This is all very exciting stuff. Now the challenge is to approach ourselves with a curious mind and an open heart. And a word of caution for Caroline; don't make a commitment not to think anything negative about yourself because you can't control your thoughts. And I worry that you might criticize yourself for criticizing yourself! The human mind is a cunning thing that will not allow us to clamp down on it and "manage" it. There is a part of your mind that is a perennial adolescent and the more you push, the more it pushes back.

So here's where we go with all of this: approach your mind with curiosity and an open heart. Simply notice when you criticize yourself and be aware that it's happened. Be curious about whether the voice's mail or female, old or young. Whether it is an actual voice or something out is also interesting. And then notice what your mind does with that criticism – do you weave a narrative or does your stomach clench or your shoulders tighten. Perhaps you argue back. Just approach your mind with great curiosity.

And here is the compassion part: it starts with a good relationship with yourself that is understanding and kind. It's the type of relationship you feel towards someone you care deeply about.

The other evening I was alone because my dearest friend had a crisis with her daughter. My heart broke for her daughter and I could hear the distress in my friend voice. At the same time, I had called both of my daughters and they hadn't returned my call in a couple of days. And finally another friend of mine took herself "off the grid" and has not been in touch for a couple of weeks. So my anxious mind took over and started weaving great disasters about all my significant relationships. You know the kind of stories we tell ourselves when the universal "abandonment demon" rears its head and bytes a part of us we don't like bitten! And then the anxiety goes up even higher. After a few minutes, I realized how much I was suffering. I didn't blame myself for being neurotic, I just knew I was in pain. And I let myself feel all that pain of feeling so very alone at that moment. It wasn't pleasant, but I felt less alone that evening.

A friend of mine once told me about one interpretation of the biblical scene where Moses meets God. Of course, we cannot see God. But in this interpretation, as God passes before his eyes, Moses for just one moment sees the world through God's eyes. When I teach people self compassion through meditation, I invite them to imagine seeing the world through the eyes of a loving and compassionate God. Then seeing strangers through those eyes (similar to open hearted and curious), then seeing loved ones through those eyes.

And then seeing yourself through the eyes of a loving and deeply caring God. Needless to say, it's a powerful exercise.

How fortunate we all are to have this exchange!

And by the way, that drawing is filled with life and joy

Hi Vickki

I'm so sorry to hear what you and your daughter are going through. First let's address her and then we can talk about you and your relationship with her.

This horrible thing happened when she was right in the middle of puberty, a time when girls begin to think of themselves as women and wonder what all that really means. It's also the time when most girls are self-conscious, especially about their bodies. As a matter fact, research shows that around puberty girls self-esteem tends to get very low. Complicating things, I have found in my practice that young people who have lived with a disability their whole lives, tend to run into trouble between 15 and 20 years old.

You are right to be concerned about your daughters isolation as it is a cardinal sign of clinical depression. If I controlled the world, she would be seen by an excellent psychotherapist who specializes in adolescents, who was also a woman with a disability!
But I can't control the world-I can even control my bladder. But that's what I would like to see happen ideally. So if you can get any combination of that or even any one of those criteria, I would be comfortable. That is, as long as they know something about disability and its psychological ramifications. But the task is getting her to therapy. By the way, if you have a support group for people with disabilities in your area, that might be better than therapy. And even better than that, if you could give her to a support group for adolescents, that would be ideal. So that's all about her. And given the fact that you will likely not be successful getting her to these things, let's talk about you.

What I "hear" in your post is great fear, confusion and helplessness. And nothing puts us at more risk for depression that had sustained helplessness. Since helplessness is the truth of your life right now, you need care, respite and tools to tolerate your helplessness. At least, if you were a friend of mine that's what I would want for you.

I will tell you that faith cures fear and vice versa. All fear is about the future and our negative predictions about what could/will happen. Faith is about trust. I'm not talking about religion or even a higher power. Faith is about opening up and letting go. I wrote in one of my books that the first time we float on water, it's really an act of faith. We let go and give up control to something we don't understand intellectually. So where does faith fit in with your daughter? Before all of this happened, she sounded like she was very alive and enjoying life. Faith is about a deep trust that her life's spirit is still in there whether it is being nurtured or not.
Of course all of this sounds great and pretty simple, but very very difficult to do. The serenity prayer kind of fits here.
But if you take nothing out of this, please know that you need care. You need to be in the loving companionship of friends, you need to do something every day that brings you joy. You need to nurture your mind, body and spirit as they are probably all a bit malnourished.

And now your relationship with your daughter. If you recall from your childhood, nagging (or as some parents say "suggesting") was rarely welcome and hardly ever followed. Most of the time we offer unsolicited advice, it is about our own anxiety or helplessness. I am sure that your daughter feels that no one in this world understands her more than you do-and she is probably right. But I want more for both of you. You may think you know your daughter pretty well, but if you approach her with that curious mind and open heart, you may learn some new things.

Asked her what it's like to be 17 living in her body. Ask what happened when she looks back or looks ahead. Ask her about her wishes and her fear. And then you have to just listen. Listen with your heart wide open. Listen without thinking of things to say to make her feel better. Listen with a sense of compassion for yourself and notice how your body tenses up, how you might feel tearful or scared. And if you were able to do this, you will be aware that both of you are suffering. And if you could both talk about that, and share an experience rather than being "helper" and "being helped", it could take a great deal of tension out of your house.

Please please please keep us posted.

I know how you feel I have always been someone my friends would come to or call to get advice about anything but since my accident nobody calls or stops by to even say hello idk why but I do know that it's not good for me cause my depression keeps trying to take over me but I am a fighter and I tell my children they have to try and that means so do I I am always making an example of myself to my children to show that anything is possible

I have gone camping since my accident it was not easy but it was fun just being able to sit at the camp site and watch the wildlife rome around and to see the looks on people's faces as they drove by staring at me as if to say wow that's really cool and I'm not going to lie it was not easy to do but I had a lot of fun just being able to go I hope you can show your daughter this and she has a change of heart and will go with you some time and I to deal with isolation and depression but I do try sometimes tell your daughter I said good luck and don't push the people she loves away cause then you have no one

hey Charles,
you said something in your previous post that was very important. You said that despite your depression, you are a role model for your daughter. You don't have to pretend you are not depressed or that this is not difficult. But how you deal with your adversity is what your daughter will learn from.
As I've mentioned before I have my own history of clinical depression and was very open with my daughters about what was happening to me and what I was doing about it (medication and psychotherapy).
20 years later when my daughter experienced clinical depression, she knew what was happening and she wasn't ashamed face it or get treatment. More important, she learned that one can get through it and recover.
We are our children's role models no matter what their age and no matter what we do

also, I hope you are able to get treatment for your depression. You understand that it is not a weakness or a sign that there is something wrong with you. It is mostly about brain chemistry and with the right treatment we can take care of our brains.
If you would like, I would be happy to help you find resources in Bakersfield. Please feel free to e-mail me directly if I can help in any way:
DrDanGottlieb@aol.com

I have care 24 hours a day. And i still feel alone.  It seems my friends have come and gone. I still have friends and family support. It's not the same if you don't have people around you like yourself to talk to.